I am endorsing Todd Carpenter of Lenderama for the Social Media Manager position for the National Association of REALTORS. His plan is a solid one, and his experience with the RE.net makes him an invaluable resource.
However, I am rather concerned for Todd, and I make the endorsement with a good deal of reluctance and hesitation.
The concern and hesitation have nothing to do with Todd — he’s the ideal, perfect candidate in so many ways. Rather, what gives me pause is NAR itself. I don’t know how serious they are about embracing the fundamental changes necessary to make social media meaningful.
Reason #1: The Position
By rights, this should be at least a VP position in NAR, perhaps reporting to Frank Sibley, SVP of Communications, or to Bob Goldberg, Senior Vice President, Marketing & Business Development & Commercial Services, & President & COO, REALTORS® Information Network. Actually, if I were running NAR, this would be a Senior Vice President position on par with Frank and Bob, because it encompasses so much more that simple communications, more than marketing, more than business development.
“Social Media” as a phrase gets thrown around quite a bit, and I rather think most people either have no idea what it actually means, or use it as a convenient shorthand for “blogs, Twitter, and all that web stuff”.
What they don’t understand perhaps is that “Social Media” is media first and foremost. It arose out of the infancy of the blogosphere when individual bloggers were pounding the mainstream media (“MSM”) into the ground with their analyses, factchecking, and highlighting of little-reported stories. It has since evolved into an actual newsgathering operation on many fronts (see, e.g., Michael Yon).
If I take NAR at face value, creating a Social Media strategy means that it wants to supplant the MSM as the source of information on all things real estate to the American consumer. I do not believe this is NAR’s goal, and if it were, I do not believe that NAR is well-suited to running such an operation for a variety of factors. (Least of which is the inherent bias of real estate agents in reporting on real estate.)
So I have to take NAR not at face value, but at some code phrase value, thinking that what NAR really wants to do is come up with a strategy for helping REALTORS market more effectively to consumers by using the Web. Let us, then, instead use the term “Social Marketing”.
Because what NAR is really looking for is a “Social Marketing” strategy, I do not believe that the position has enough power within the organization to be truly effective. I could be dead wrong on that, of course, especially if the senior leadership from Dale Stinton on down are completely, 100% behind the effort, and are willing to listen to the Social Marketing Manager (“SMM”) and implement his/her plans.
My experience with large organizations, however, suggests to me that unless a position has (a) significant budget control, and (b) significant staff, it lacks power. The job description is silent on either point. Further, given that there are titles such as “Managing Director” at NAR, it leads me to believe that this position is at best a mid-level worker-bee position, rather than a strategic leadership position.
Todd can be the SVP of Social Marketing for NAR; he has the experience, the insight, the knowledge, and the connections. He’s almost too qualified for this role. So I endorse him, but with concern that he’ll spend most of his tenure banging his head against a brick wall… and silenced because he’s now part of the Establishment, instead of being a voice from outside the walls.
Reason #2: Fundamental Shift
So why does this position need to go from being a Social Media Manager to SVP of Social Marketing?
Because a social marketing strategy, in order to be effective, has to be disruptive to all of the existing marketing of NAR, most of its infrastructure, and vast parts of the membership.
I just don’t know if the people at NAR understand just how fundamental a shift it represents to go from the traditional marketing/communications model to a social marketing model. I fear that they see this as more or less a “hey, we need to teach agents how to blog” distraction, rather than the kind of seismic change that will impact everything from membership to government relations. And if NAR doesn’t see that, then it is far more likely that the needed initiatives will be stifled at birth within the organization, rather than given the juice and the horsepower to proceed.
To pick just one example, is NAR willing to completely suspend their idiotic advertising campaigns because the Social Media Manager insists that those ads are ruining the basis of social marketing: TRUST?
Again, I could be wrong, and I hope to be wrong — but the signs are not good.
Reason #3: Social Marketing Is Unproven
Finally, the uncomfortable truth of the matter is that social marketing in real estate is still unproven. Anecdotes are not the plural of evidence. That some blogger-agents are able to do enormous business does not establish in and of itself that social marketing is what is responsible for their success. For all we know, it’s all of the other things that the blogging agents do that makes them a success, such as getting local knowledge, having professional ethics, and a rock-solid understanding of real estate fundamentals.
There has never been, to date, a systematic study of the ROI from blogging and other social marketing activites. None.
The ‘good anecdotes’ are counter-balanced by the ‘bad anecdotes’ that show that some agents who are major RE.net figures, with top-notch SEO leading to excellent Google rankings, and are elite Twiterati nonetheless sell a fraction of the houses that the non-techie agent down the street sells.
No major (say Top 20) real estate brokerage has a track record showing the impact of social marketing on their revenues, on their profitability, on their efficiency, on customer retention, etc. etc.
Even if Todd is the greatest social media guru who has ever lived, and NAR is completely and 100% behind his efforts… it simply may be the case that social marketing does not have a dramatic impact in real estate.
After all, we are still talking about seven year cycles in between purchases. How much blog reading about houses is the consumer going to do once he’s bought the damn house? This is a market fundamental that no amount of Twittering can change.
I have faith in the transformative power of the web and the connectivity between humans it enables. I believe that social marketing does have a positive impact on brokerage, done correctly. I have faith; what I don’t have are facts.
Todd is the Right Man; Is this the Right Job?
So I am left with endorsing Todd as being the right guy with the right plan and the right skills. He’s a leader, an inspiration, and a mentor to so many of us in RE.net.
Question is… is Social Media Manager the right job?
-rsh
32 thoughts on “NAR Social Media Manager – A Concerned Endorsement”
>So I endorse him, but with concern that he’ll spend most of his tenure banging his head against a brick wall… and silenced because he’s now part of the Establishment, instead of being a voice from outside the walls.
I’m concerned as well. Could you retract this endorsement please? Todd’s too meaningful of a resource on the outside walls to be inside. Besides, Chicago is no place for a Ninja to dwell.
>is Social Media Manager the right job?
Not at all at this time. A good place to start would be having those who are already working for NAR being hands on in relating with “social media” and doing some basic relating with others.
>So I endorse him, but with concern that he’ll spend most of his tenure banging his head against a brick wall… and silenced because he’s now part of the Establishment, instead of being a voice from outside the walls.
I’m concerned as well. Could you retract this endorsement please? Todd’s too meaningful of a resource on the outside walls to be inside. Besides, Chicago is no place for a Ninja to dwell.
>is Social Media Manager the right job?
Not at all at this time. A good place to start would be having those who are already working for NAR being hands on in relating with “social media” and doing some basic relating with others.
Todd would get my vote.
While I agree that social media is predominantly social and the ROI for a real estate agent may be unproven & anecdotal, especially when compared to other marketing, the value of social media for an “organization” is a different hair ball. Here we get into building brand awareness and the wonders of perception marketing. When you can get an army of followers (evangelists) talking about your brand, why therein lies the ROI rub.
Todd would get my vote.
While I agree that social media is predominantly social and the ROI for a real estate agent may be unproven & anecdotal, especially when compared to other marketing, the value of social media for an “organization” is a different hair ball. Here we get into building brand awareness and the wonders of perception marketing. When you can get an army of followers (evangelists) talking about your brand, why therein lies the ROI rub.
“I just don’t know if the people at NAR understand just how fundamental a shift it represents to go from the traditional marketing/communications model to a social marketing model.”
I suspect they have *no clue*. And that’s not really a slam on NAR as most people/organizations have no clue.
I agree with you Rob that the position should be a VP/SVP level. The fact that its posted on LinkedIn with the note “local candidates only, no relocation” tells me that with the current mindset, there is little to no chance of that happening. Restricting a search for a position of this importance to local candidates or those willing to relocate on their own dime is patently absurd, and very telling IMHO.
This is a dream job in many ways, and one I’d also be interested in. But Todd, myself, and anyone else applying needs to realize that dreams can swiftly turn into nightmares. More importantly, the NAR leadership needs to realize it and honestly give this person a shot, and time, to get the job done.
“I just don’t know if the people at NAR understand just how fundamental a shift it represents to go from the traditional marketing/communications model to a social marketing model.”
I suspect they have *no clue*. And that’s not really a slam on NAR as most people/organizations have no clue.
I agree with you Rob that the position should be a VP/SVP level. The fact that its posted on LinkedIn with the note “local candidates only, no relocation” tells me that with the current mindset, there is little to no chance of that happening. Restricting a search for a position of this importance to local candidates or those willing to relocate on their own dime is patently absurd, and very telling IMHO.
This is a dream job in many ways, and one I’d also be interested in. But Todd, myself, and anyone else applying needs to realize that dreams can swiftly turn into nightmares. More importantly, the NAR leadership needs to realize it and honestly give this person a shot, and time, to get the job done.
Thinking out loud here: It should be a woman. A mom. Sorry, dudes, but that’s a fact.
This is the NA-effin-R we are talking about, and a mom is the voice we all dislike, but respond to anyway. dangit.
Moms are tough and rule the world- cradle to grave. A guy would bang his head against the wall, a mom would roll up her sleeves and stick her hand in that diaper, and do what needed to be done- without gagging.
And she wouldn’t bitch incessantly about Chicago weather, she’d just bundle up, put on the galoshes, and tramp about like the queen that she is.
Think about it… 😀
(and hell no, I’m not interested, so don’t go there)
Thinking out loud here: It should be a woman. A mom. Sorry, dudes, but that’s a fact.
This is the NA-effin-R we are talking about, and a mom is the voice we all dislike, but respond to anyway. dangit.
Moms are tough and rule the world- cradle to grave. A guy would bang his head against the wall, a mom would roll up her sleeves and stick her hand in that diaper, and do what needed to be done- without gagging.
And she wouldn’t bitch incessantly about Chicago weather, she’d just bundle up, put on the galoshes, and tramp about like the queen that she is.
Think about it… 😀
(and hell no, I’m not interested, so don’t go there)
@Teri –
Love it. Love it, love it, love it. 🙂
So who do you think it should be?
-rsh
@Teri –
Love it. Love it, love it, love it. 🙂
So who do you think it should be?
-rsh
Re: Blogging ROI studies:
http://www.forrester.com/Research/Document/Excerpt/0,7211,41064,00.html
Even so, you are right to note that perhaps it is all the non-blogging things that blogging agents do which make them successful. And maybe social media isn’t what the NAR needs. These two thoughts will probably help to make the position less effective for anyone who may feel threatened by a Social Media position.
Re: Blogging ROI studies:
http://www.forrester.com/Research/Document/Excerpt/0,7211,41064,00.html
Even so, you are right to note that perhaps it is all the non-blogging things that blogging agents do which make them successful. And maybe social media isn’t what the NAR needs. These two thoughts will probably help to make the position less effective for anyone who may feel threatened by a Social Media position.
Great Post Rob! Todd would be an excellent candidate but as others have so eloquently stated, wrong organization for his style and experience. Another thing that confuses me is one person against 1.2 million, well several thousand less that would actually interact. But seriously, I am one person that blogs for Roost and sometimes I’m overwhelmed! Think about what this person would be up against on an hourly basis. They would burn out in a month. So keep looking NAR for that diamond in the rough located somewhere in the Chicagoland area! One last note, Teri You Rock!
Great Post Rob! Todd would be an excellent candidate but as others have so eloquently stated, wrong organization for his style and experience. Another thing that confuses me is one person against 1.2 million, well several thousand less that would actually interact. But seriously, I am one person that blogs for Roost and sometimes I’m overwhelmed! Think about what this person would be up against on an hourly basis. They would burn out in a month. So keep looking NAR for that diamond in the rough located somewhere in the Chicagoland area! One last note, Teri You Rock!
Derek is right. Social media management, on the organizational level, now requires a team. One guru can’t pull it off, unless you’re talking a small shop (or tight budget).
I think Teri is thinking quite rightly outside the box.
Derek is right. Social media management, on the organizational level, now requires a team. One guru can’t pull it off, unless you’re talking a small shop (or tight budget).
I think Teri is thinking quite rightly outside the box.
Jay Thompson gets my vote, NAR could sure use him!!!
Jay Thompson gets my vote, NAR could sure use him!!!
And let me add the thankless job part..
>So who do you think it should be?
It shouldn’t be anyone WE know, because, well, we know them and would be inclined to give them too much unsolicited advice. Mom’s don’t cotton to that.
A team would be nice. The mouthpiece could be anyone respected in the NAR…
Look. It really doesn’t matter what we think, does it, because it’s not about us, thankfully. It’s about creating a bridge from the past to the future, I’m assuming, not really sure. A mom figure would do that, does that, in a non-threatening way.
Derek, you are taking a company from the ground up, right? the NAR is an organization that has its members in place, listening, paying attention or not, but it’s not out there drumming up start up money. I’m assuming, again, that they want a voice, to train, for PR, for understanding.
It’s kinda obvious, though, that they still don’t get it, so it’s kinda doomed to fail this first go ’round…
Derek- you rock, too! 😉
And let me add the thankless job part..
>So who do you think it should be?
It shouldn’t be anyone WE know, because, well, we know them and would be inclined to give them too much unsolicited advice. Mom’s don’t cotton to that.
A team would be nice. The mouthpiece could be anyone respected in the NAR…
Look. It really doesn’t matter what we think, does it, because it’s not about us, thankfully. It’s about creating a bridge from the past to the future, I’m assuming, not really sure. A mom figure would do that, does that, in a non-threatening way.
Derek, you are taking a company from the ground up, right? the NAR is an organization that has its members in place, listening, paying attention or not, but it’s not out there drumming up start up money. I’m assuming, again, that they want a voice, to train, for PR, for understanding.
It’s kinda obvious, though, that they still don’t get it, so it’s kinda doomed to fail this first go ’round…
Derek- you rock, too! 😉
I’m amending this.
I hope the position remains unfilled.
It doesn’t matter what we think because I do believe they are looking for someone who will actively “monitor”, “enforce”, “maintain” Oh goody. It *is* Mom, only without the love part…
We all want our buddies there, they want an Enforcer. Am I the only one creeped out by this? Seriously think about what this is saying. The implications are creepy, are they not?
Here’s the thing: We, the RE.net, are a very tiny puny little group of people. It’s oh-so-cozy here, ain’t it? Even when it’s not cozy, it’s tiny. So we all know each other, and we work with or around each other. We are a group of individuals that have learned how to do this. But the NAR is a ginormous thing. So I think we are looking at this from our little world, and adding all the warm fuzzies, but the ad isn’t warm or fuzzy. It’s serious business about serious business.
I’m skeptical, as always….
>The Manager of Social Media will ensure that NAR has the knowledge and skills to guide NAR staff and members in creating, facilitating, and participating effectively in key conversations about our organization, our issues, and our members that are conducted on blogs and other online social media channels.
This position requires a high-energy, self-directed, deadline-oriented individual who has exceptional communication skills and is able to:
* Monitor real estate industry and related social media
* Facilitate NAR’s participation in external blogs and social media
* Maintain, evolve, and enforce NAR’s social media policies and guidelines
* Train NAR staff and elected leaders about how to write for blogs and other forms of social media
* Monitor existing NAR blogs and create new ones as needed to foster conversations about relevant topics or issues.
* Measure the effectiveness of NAR’s social media efforts.
I’m amending this.
I hope the position remains unfilled.
It doesn’t matter what we think because I do believe they are looking for someone who will actively “monitor”, “enforce”, “maintain” Oh goody. It *is* Mom, only without the love part…
We all want our buddies there, they want an Enforcer. Am I the only one creeped out by this? Seriously think about what this is saying. The implications are creepy, are they not?
Here’s the thing: We, the RE.net, are a very tiny puny little group of people. It’s oh-so-cozy here, ain’t it? Even when it’s not cozy, it’s tiny. So we all know each other, and we work with or around each other. We are a group of individuals that have learned how to do this. But the NAR is a ginormous thing. So I think we are looking at this from our little world, and adding all the warm fuzzies, but the ad isn’t warm or fuzzy. It’s serious business about serious business.
I’m skeptical, as always….
>The Manager of Social Media will ensure that NAR has the knowledge and skills to guide NAR staff and members in creating, facilitating, and participating effectively in key conversations about our organization, our issues, and our members that are conducted on blogs and other online social media channels.
This position requires a high-energy, self-directed, deadline-oriented individual who has exceptional communication skills and is able to:
* Monitor real estate industry and related social media
* Facilitate NAR’s participation in external blogs and social media
* Maintain, evolve, and enforce NAR’s social media policies and guidelines
* Train NAR staff and elected leaders about how to write for blogs and other forms of social media
* Monitor existing NAR blogs and create new ones as needed to foster conversations about relevant topics or issues.
* Measure the effectiveness of NAR’s social media efforts.
All that came to mind was the Romans nailing the man to the cross.
I sense Tod is up for a lot of things, but he doesn’t deserve that.
All that came to mind was the Romans nailing the man to the cross.
I sense Tod is up for a lot of things, but he doesn’t deserve that.
Sorry Jay, my previous comment applies to you too.
Sorry Jay, my previous comment applies to you too.
Todd qualified? Without a doubt! Jay? Ditto. The knowledge and expertise needed probably would kill a team of 10 of them put together. This isn’t something they (NAR) should do to “appease” a “small group” of zealots. Social Media Manager or Social Media Management? This is a huge part of the future of this industry. Hopefully, they will begin to understand the need and the demand for competence in this space.
Todd qualified? Without a doubt! Jay? Ditto. The knowledge and expertise needed probably would kill a team of 10 of them put together. This isn’t something they (NAR) should do to “appease” a “small group” of zealots. Social Media Manager or Social Media Management? This is a huge part of the future of this industry. Hopefully, they will begin to understand the need and the demand for competence in this space.
many comments to make right now, as a former interal employee.
many comments to make right now, as a former interal employee.
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